>> what do you thinkf when you see tree? a treaent for cancer? alternative fuel for our cars? do you think of hope fo the enviroent, or food cthing, shelter? we do. werhaeuser, growi ideas. >> i will not vote and many o us will n vot for a final use-a senate compromise without a public oion. >> this ek on "inside washinon,"ow trouble from the left on health care. is the public optionead? mnwhile, the congenial debate continues.

>> why do you continue to support a nazi policy, as obama s expressed suppo this policy >> on wha planet do youpend most of ur time? >> also, afghans risked their lives to vote. as terrorist mbings escalate in iraq, thmaliki government chooses not to ask for arican lp. the nation lose t legendary newsmen, rertovak and don witt. >> the secret is to find people who could tell the sto better thanou can. captioneby the nation captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- >> i am looking for somebody who can tell me of theublic option inresident obama's health plan is still viab. decratic senator kent conrad

says not in thsenate. >> look, the fact the matter that there are n the votes in the united states senate for the public option, they're never have been, so to continue to chase that rabbit i think it's just a wasted effort >> after sayinthat the rabbit woulprobably be taken o the table, health and hum servis secretarkathleen sebelius gave the little fellow a n lease on li. >> absolutely nothingas changed. continue to supporthe public option it. thatwill help lower cos and if american consumers more choice and keep private insurers on this. >> roger simon, what is the status of the public tion rabbit ght now? >> ielieve without the public ption, barack obama will not get the health ca reform throh congress. he is the head of a left-of- nter party. they want the puic option.

kent conrad, i should int out, is no the whip of theenate. he is not counting votes. di durbin is great when i see dick durbin on telision saying at the public option i- dickurbin is. when i see dick durbin on levision saying that the public optnis dead, i will believe it. >> i am minded of the general chesty puller. he was surroded and he said, "we have tm just where we want them." that is where oba finds himself. he is surrounded. he has conservives after him, as the blueogs afterim, the liberals after him,he commentators, polical commenta class after him. i doot think that he is going to pull a chesty puller,but i do n think he is ouof the game y. why do i say that? lyndon johnson said clarence mitchellnd the naacp when

they'reushing the civil-rights bill -- mitchell nt to him and said he had somhing he really had to ruff, and got ected him d said, "how man ves do you have,larence?" that ishat it will com down to with obama. >> the wascall wabt is dead. in thend, liberals are bluffing. mara liassonof npput it rrectly. theris no left wing democrat who will le a seat if the option is left out of the bill. there are moderateemocrats who ll lose seats if the option is in the bill. at will determine how it goes. there will b no plicption. the might be a co-op idea, whh is a trojan horse. >> i don't think there will be a co-op idea. that has llen pretty flat. it would no surprise me if e house paes a bill with a public option in, and the senate sses some bifurted thing

thatoes not have a public option, and it is all result in congress, probab without som sort of puic option. -- is all resolv in conference, prably withou some sort public option. >> you have the blue dogs digging in their heels, you have howard an saying tt the publicption pass to be the. how wouldbj handlthis? >>e would not ha held public meetings. giving the oppositn a chance toome and waved gns and talk about sociali and death pals. he worked with coness but he got medicarehrough congress in 1965. itas the last of the great society. he got considerae bipartisan pport. >> the other thing did was count votes. this is butbama has got do. he starts out with clearly 40

votein theenate. l the republicans will vote against him. with the public option in, and robably without a public option. hehas kent conra of who will somewhere else, scorcese ll not supporthe public option. where does he- or says he will n support the public option. whe does he get the fift votes? he has got to do the math, and if they have not done that, that is awfully surprisg. >> why does obama court tohe republans any way? h is not courtg republins. are you dding? iall the argents a with the democrats. the left democts want the blic optn, and t blue dogs are about the cost of the program. the publicans are entirely irrelevant he likeso blame it on republicans, but it is within his party.

he has aajority in the house that is huge, and a supe majority in e senate. >> but he does t have a filister-proof -- >> he does -- >> ted kennedy and natal, so the he does no have 60otes even if h -- does not show up, so he does n have 60 votes even if he has every democrat's support him. barack obama is not lyndon johnson. lyndon johon did not have to cope with ta radio and cable tv. these e very different tim. >> why not just passed the bil you want and let republicans filibuster? >> what will happen that you will end upith a slimmed down bill that everydy agrees will be high regulation of insurance companies. evybody is eligible, no pconditions, you do not get dropped if you get sick, and caps on pments are lifted everybody will agree on that.

it wle individual mandates. young people are going to have to pay into the syst. everybody will agree on that. all the othertuff wil probably fl. >> if he comesp with a bill that cuts down substantiallyn the 46 mlion who are uninsured, he has achieved quite a victory. >> i have more qstions about health care and e debate. >> my obligation to the american pele says we will getthis donone way or the other. >> pgy noonan writes in "th wall street jrnal" this week that every big idea tt works is marked by clarit where is the clari in this debate, nina? >> that is the prlem. there e too many movg parts. 's like the han back. most people have backroblems, and . obama has ck problems cause there is the question of contlling costs, who do you cover, the livery of services.

at is theroblem. of course, these are all real problems. but it is just too rd to explain. there is not a single thing. >> what i don't derstand is at naz analogies people shing up with hitl mustache isainted on presint obama. pele showing up with loaded weapons. at presidential four runs. how do they get ay with that? >> that is a provocative act and act of intimidation and has no place in polits. maybe theyre trying to sa that the second amendment a viable and that they are emphasizing their right to the second amendment. this is gog to have political discourse it is al potentially very dangerous. >> i want to say something about this. during the bush administration, there were lotof people pushed away from ralli becausehey had a john kerry button, maybe

no evenisplayed. lile oldadies were. the administration would always say its the sect service. nothere are people outside with guns. people say that th are not eaking the law. is is clearly a cision by th obama administration not have a big fight with gun rights people. if the secret seice decided that was threateningthey would arrest thoseeople. i personally consideit threatening pre i woularrest those ople. >> i wou arrest em as well, although i think it is highly aggerated. nay pelosi talking about people crying nazi insignias. half a dozen, perhaps? it is a way to r honest, ddle-age people saking in a democracy. nbc edited out -- it had a segment on a guy witan automatirifle outside a rally, and implied tha he was a threat. it was actuallan african-

amican, and it was a stunt put on by a local talk radio host. all that was left outf that report. it implied that is right wing in nets. >> there are right wi african- americans. >> but he would not be a rast. was edited out on puose. >> toet back to thessue of clarity, the other side is against socialism and death panels and hitler-like tions of barack obama. on barack ama's site, as nina said, here we are in mid-to- late-augu and there is no arity with barack obama's position. does he wt a publicption? does he wt, what? woulhe sacrifice both for the ll? how is hgoing to pafor it? will h just tax billionaires' like nancy pelosi once? -- wants?

how far is he willing to go to get to the house and senate? would hfind a filibter? on and none of those critica points has thereeen any cavi. >> a there is a good reason, i think, fort. you start out th something ke health care that h been debated for 50 years. ou have to knowhere everybody is on the issu yo have 535 members up there. you have to know where they stand. he is taking tio flush them t. you need to know whereour votes are on the public option. yoneed to know whereyour voteare on all of these issues before you answerto -- time is his side. >>i don't think so. >> time is on his side and we will talk ofce next january -- talk about this next january -- >> it has been a long and costly

flush if that is the cas >> let me ask about the letter ted kenny wrote to the governor of massachusetts asking to change in law -- a l so that the is no vacancy the senate seat before specia election. ho was behind e change? edward kennedy. his letter was touching, t his hypocrisy is staggering. the tradition in massachusetts had always immediate appointment. you don't have a vacancy and you go ahe. as aay to keeand romney from appointing auccessor to esident kerry, kennedy wasthe one wh changed the law. all of audden he has discovered theirtues of having twseats occupd at the same time. >> it does notook good at ts point because the democrats are sullen and the repubcans are cring about this. but he wants to make sure that massachusetts has o senators -- >> hdid n care about that

four years ago. >> now, he did notbut now he do. >> he could n go t his sister'suneral, seeming to be an iication that he ll never get to washingt to cast a vo. when we say the democrats need 60 votes, thould do without kennedy's votes long as they could pick up republican vote or two. >> snowe and collins, maybe. in kabul, there were counting ballots this by -- despitehe talin's best efforts to keep voters away. one election officl estimates at 4 to 50% of the nation's voters showed up. fewer than 70% who ved in the first national election in 24. people have hope for democracy , i gue, b i keep

wonding if this i war of necessity the president says it is and he saido on monda but is it? >> i do not ow if is until i look nextoor and pakistan. then i cannot figure out how, if you have a hightyle tiban- type gernment o the border of pakistan, the next placeo go ll be paktan. thenou are in al trouble. you are talking about a country with nucleareapons. >> here is a count with villages, very remote, tribal allegiances that shift sometes on a dailyasis. >>nother baugher where we really do not undetand where were fighting. we understand what ware)[fightit clear if we willver get there. if they vote in the 40%to 50% range, that puts them about wherthe united states is, so i am not sure we shld be too crical of tt. the upsh is does it really

maer to the outcome of this more who they ect? you are collecting the government is afraid to lee the capitacity of kabul, has ttle support in the countryde. you haven american and to troops thaare fighting to create democracy in a place where it has ver flourished. >> ou inial so victory in toppling the taliban gave us the idea that we could turn afghanistan into a real country and real democcy. th is acally an illusion. it never was a country and will not be a democracy ase understa it. what our objtive is is a minimal objectives we know that the enemy will be active andill have some influence in the sth. our objective to maintain t pital and wh used toe the no. alliance. and hold thaline. think t minimal objective is achievable. but the idea of a single

ified country that is democratic is a complete edition. -- illusion. >> president obamaefine his objective early on as defeing the talin. defeating t taliban is one thingould nation-building is completely differe. if he goes intohe area of naon blding -- >> how do you deat the talin without thnation-building? >> doou build a nation at the same time? >> in iraq, terrible sectarian violence this week. 30,000 americatroops still in and around the city ofaghdad. the malikiovernment did not call themn for assistance. one man, a close political adviser to the government, said that we want themut of here as quickly as we can get them o, the amerans. >> we have had a probl with maliki as recently as the success in basra.

he attacked the sadrites, but i was close victory a it was ameran help in the end that helped. has always overestimatedhis strengs. inaking us out, he again overestimated his strength and now he seems wear than he was. this is a winnable war, but it could be unwinnable if the iraqis assume thathey are in control in a situation wre they are n quite ready and keepus out as happened in this way. >> i do not agree with that construction aall. look at this way -- inugust have had two amecan casualti in iraq. two. this is an ira problem. how the iraqis handle t fight with sunnis and shiites is their business. ey want a referendum in january to get us out sner, that itheir business. our job is not to make se that the iraqis get along with one

another. wehave done the jobhat we had too. don't haveo stay there. wiing the war is their business. >>we destabilize the country and now we say it is broke and we will not fix it and that is what the iraqi government wts to read the maliki governmen's decisis are probably wrong fo the country but good for the united stes. thsands of lives and trillions of llars. that money would b us 10 years of hlth care reform. i think ourrole there is and should be over. >> if we used those resources in afghanistan and the beginning, we woulde in a much better situation. >> right, and how exactlyould you have used them? inraq, we have the potential of an extremelimportant sttegic ally and it quires a slht bit of patience ana few more months ratherhan a quick and complete withdrawal. >> and when it is done, we go.

>> let ask you about the ci hiring and tining blackwater contractors too out and assainate al qaeda-types be it must've en a hell of a training job. >> it is e ultimate in t contractg problem. >> congress neveheard about is. >> y have to have gornment responble for itself. in the coming weeks, w will have much more of this nd of stuff. the inspector gener's report the cia and torture is cing out. eric holderere probably a sign a prosecutor to look into whether anybody exceededhe rul p down by the bu administtion. wwill probably havethe inspecr general's report o justice about whether the lawyers tre acted impperly in setng down the torture

rule. >> doesn't all this puic airing of dirty laundry defeat thpurpose of intelligce gathering? >> but in thecase of the investigations tt u expect the justice depament to lach, the high justice department official lked about th same issue and said that people died a result ofhose interrations'. you have to do something in at case. u cannot just step back and say that that ishat it is. >> we are nevegoing to bend the cost cus on assainations if wkeep doing this stuff out i remember when american agencies want to aassinate somody thenhey did it themselves. we did not go out and squdered $20 miion. >> like that idea,ut there is aounter argument. what would thesessassinations as sensibly do? look, it never happened, only ideas. if youant to kill a guy in pakistanyou use a drone.

but if you want to kill a guy in hamburg, killingim in the west is hard. you have a problem with a local street youant to use a contractor, because this easier to deny. the reason the program in the end was abandoned wasecause it was a shting bad guys in hamburg and pariand london. >> coacting these guys is an old practice of th cia. they hired the mafia to go after castro. this is noing new. >> that did t work out well. >> as i recall, that s the kennedboys. >> yes, it w. it did not work out well. normally this es not work out well. >> is that really a goopolicy? >> i think it is a wonderful policy if you get the righ guys. >> allied with people we cann

control -- >> let's sayou find somebod in brazil a yemen who was not exactly your friend, you shoul a guy. >> let me ask you about a guy whwas in prison f the bombing of pan am 103. 0 people dd, 189 of them amecans. he wasust released by scottish authorities for compassione reasons. >> the better e soon. >> he has cancer. >> terrible miscarage of justice. by the way, this g looks healthto me. one guy, the scottish secrery of jusce, was his decision and his alone. in fact, the sts have granted 80% o such ruests over the last 10 years. >> this a scandal. decances masquerading as compassion. somebody at "natial review" dia calculation -- is guy

served 11 daysor eve person heurdered. >> robert novak,e brought you on, i have to be nest, to be the cynic. >> i have never been one in my life. >> h died this week after a long illness. would you agreeith him or not, the prince darkness -- loved that -- nobody in the town worked rder. >> he was a journalist who believed in urnalism, like the late mary mcgro did. i ew him in a differe way. in washington things are not always as they seem agreed for example, i deey le charles krauthammer. people may not know that. with rober novak, i m him 40 years ago i knew him as a parent. our kids wer i high school to get there. then he had a show that nobody

really saw with indury people in washingn. we spent half an hour gether talkinbout whington, d.c., and nothing ideological at a. it was aprofessional but not an ideologue. >> colby and i a going to elope to massacsetts. [laughr] he wasreallynteresting, and what distinguished him was his independence. he s a columst who did reporting so he d not have to be edited by anybody. he said exactly what he believed. it was his independence that made him so invaluable. >> he was always very ne to be even though am sure he considered my politics deplorable. i think it waslways a surprise to him that people d not lik him becauseof his politics. he was always able to separate in his mind h core humanity from simplhis political beliefs. >> that isabsolutely right. is so funny that he was called the princef darkness. that was hipublic persona, but he was suca dect, nice

pers personally that it is a mismatch. on hewitt -- we could do a whole show about don hewitt. he was producing television news when most were lisning to the radio. he did t kennedy-nixon debates, produced the first half-hour evening newscast, oduced about 60 minutes," where he demonrated that it is possible to makeoney doing newsprint will leave it up to others to decide wheth that was go or bad another gre newsman died, an ten, former bushing wa street journal." last word. thanks. see you next week. for a transcrt of this brdcast, log on to insidewashington.tv.